Vince Warren
Jameel Jaffer
Dahlia Lithwick
Jeremy Scahill
Moderator Jen Nessel
V — Fighting for Gitmo detainees rights. Working with netroots community. Move national opinion from the idea that the detainees are the worst terrorists in the world to reality. President has overstepped his authority, that he can do what he wants because of his office. Went to SCOTUS won on idea the laws apply to everyone, even Gitmo. Then Congress passed legislation that undermined this. Again to SCOTUS, and they agreed torture is a war crime. We now face idea US politicians can be, and are, war criminals, according to Geneva Convention. But now we must face prosecuting these crimes. Now Congress has covered up crimes by ensuring no one can sue over conduct that led to torture. Courts agree this is illegal suspension of Habeas Corpus. What do we do now with those who are innocent and how do we free them?
J — BushCo can end torture anytime they want to through many avenues. The next president can do this quickly and easily as well. The big human rights failures of the past years are not tied to Bush alone. It’s dangerous to assume this. The media has helped, as has Congress. To the extent we have had the chance to roll back these policies, it’s the courts who are drawing the lines Congress refuses to draw. It’s been a mixed record. More bad then good. Courts let State Secrets argument shut down many cases. It will take more then just changing administration to fix these issues. The next one must set up mechanism to address these issues in first 100 days.
Jeremy — Talking about now, not new roads for the future. Democrats must be loyal opposition party. Nancy Pelosi has failed and drove the Congress down in the popular opinion. Dems in Congress imped fixing issues and enforcement of laws. The reality is that we are being privatized, Iraq and Blackwater, Obama is currently being guarded by these people. Progressives are being sidelined, and old guard being brought back in. Many things we hate started under Clinton administration. Obama rhetoric is disturbing, he may continue contractor policy. This includes the War on Drugs. Obama’s people are not good with accountability. We must hold their feet to the fire on these issues and not let him become wedded to this old guard. Is Obama going to enforce the war crimes act? Will he take the law seriously? Funding should be cut off by Pelosi, and this will lead to an end of the war. After the election Obama doesn’t need us so we must stand up now and make him address these issues.
D — Address Unitary Executive and immunity of law breaking. The problem is sidelining the courts and our rights to ensure no accountability. These predated Bush in the Republican mindset. It’s an easy trick for the president to say the law is really complicated, from FISA to torture. They find lawyers to make this argument. There is a refrain that what it says is not what it says. Signing statements to avoid the laws. Bush uses them regularly to skip past the will of the law. The other part of this problem is that it’s all done in secret. We don’t know what Bush will and won’t abide by because we can’t see his memos. Immunity should make us all really angry. From torture to spying, we are denying accountability. States Secrets not a real rule, but an idea that you can hold some things back in trial. Bush uses this to stop entire trials. Immunity sidelines the courts. Packing the courts is also the problem. Bush has filed the courts with his followers and the like-minded. We must care about who serves on these courts because they are the key to all of this.
Mod — How can we ensure accountability and hold people accountable? How important is this versus truth and reconsiliation?
V — We think legal accountability is the only type, this type has been limited. The other side is international law. Donald Rumsfeld charged in Germany for instance, because US law is broken. The answer is a special prosecutor to hold hearings with teeth. Through people in jail if they refuse to testify. Truth hearings are very important. (South Africa) How do you hold truth heaing when most we need to hear from are not aloud in the country? We have war criminals in office now.
J — Truth is also important. Don’t skip over truth to get to accountability. There is a lot of info still covered up. The CIA will not release info needed to review Gitmo detainees torture. BushCo has exploited this. They use false narratives to justify this stance on knowledge control.
D — When we use the word accountability we get accused of witch hunts. They are good people in tough times. What matters is they broke the law. The world is watching to see if we act on this and show that our laws matter. The word gets twisted into a bad thing. Lawlessness is what we are facing.
J — The skill of this government is how they are able to cover up so much.
V — Jeremy, do you see your work in the accountability context?
Jeremy — i am not alone in this. Independent media has driven, pushed this long before the MSM addressed it. Blackwater is not the problem, they are poison fruit on a very bad tree. Congress funds them. There are laws that could be applied today. The Real issue is this is an enforcement free zone. The courts must review the lawsuits already out there to see what can be prosecuted. Obama must not let bygones be bygones. If the democrats walk away form this after Nov. 4, we stop fighting for democracy. We must force them to continue this fight. The party will not do it on their own.
D, Mod — Jameel, what if McCain wins?
J — I hope Obama admin better on these issues. But, record not so good with Dem Congress. But they have done opposite. They expanded FISA. Less convinced Obama admin will address these issues.
V — I agree. What does Obama’s vote for immunity mean? With FISA vote, Congress refused accountability stance. We have hope, but we must be realistic. We just lost a very real opportunity.
Q — Why are dems rolling over? Glen Greenwald says dems also complicate so they voted for immunity. What do you say?
J — that is true for immunity, but for wiretapping, the requirements for a minimum reason are gone, thanks to Dem Congress. Why? What led to that?
D — With torture, complicity is an issue. Pelosi knew, but not same as supporting it.
Q — Expected pardons of Bush, how does that affect accountability?
V — Short answer, we must not think about this, we must still file lawsuits.
Q — Widening states secrets, have we set a precedent for future administrations? Is the gene out of the bottle? Can we stop this?
J — The SCOTUS, hasn’t weighed in on this yet. This is still hotin the courts. But it all depends on who is on the court. As for legislation, the executive branch can be overridden by Congressional bills. They can force the courts to address this issue.
Q — We only hold people to what they did in the past. The past changes the future, so if we hold them accountable then in the future others may think twice.
Jere — Obama’s bill endorsed by Blackwater. FBI will investigate crimes. This is a fairy tale. Who will do all the ground work for the FBI? Most likely the very contractors they are supposed to investigate. This goes beyond BushCo, our congress does nothing to defend democracy.
Q — The next president could resend presidential orders, but what stops the next person after them from doing it again?
J — This is true. We must continue the fight.
Q — What can bloggers do to help this fight independantly?
Mod — One big advantage of blogging is that you have liberties others don’t. We can link and list and cross-reference.
D — It was the bloggers who kept FISA in the news. The blogs have had more influence then they know.
V — One difficaulty is that the MSM won’t carry all the facts. Bloggers can create a real news cycle beyond the MSM. Bloggers must push the issues. But how does this conflict with getting candidates elected?
Q — Adding to last question, beyond bloggers, we are activists. We want to help, but we don’t know what to do. We march, we blog, we research, but we are close to pitch fork stage. What can we do, how can we fight back? How can we help you?
jere — One point you bring up, people spend too much time on computer and less time in the streets. How much time and resources are wasted on Obama love fests?
Q — We need to hold his feet to the fire. We can’t wait till he is elected.
Mod — There is back and forth with grassroots, we support them and they support us. We are all trying to figure this out.
D — When looking at why Dems suck, remember they are terrified. They are on the hook if something happens. We have failed to make the case that we will not be scared even if something happens. We will not flip on them.
Jam — We must point out that Bush makes us less safe right now. Our freedoms make us safe. Without debate and free speech, policy suffers. That bloggers have an audience, we must let people know this.
Q — The international community wants to know when we start respecting their sovereignty.
Jer –obama will shift this idea, but much will remain the same in Iraq and Afghanistan. there is concern in Europe of increased use of international forces in Afghanistan. There will be a honeymoon with the world, like Bill Clinton. US policy won’t change enough.
V — Europe is also complicate in this. They let us do much of the this in the first place.
Q — Pelosi bashing bad. How can we say this won’t change? Why aren’t we bashing McCain?
Jere — Dems haven’t fought this fight the way they should have. Nancy has failed to uphold her role, and have funded this war, passed Bush will. People of conscious must rise above party politics and criticize everyone responsible.
Q — What exposure would senior admins would have will traveling in Europe?
V — They should be held, they will not go to those countries. Right now they can do what ever they want. We must make them sleep with one eye open when overseas. We must work at home to address this.
Mod — Pinochi took years.
Q — Do you all feel veteran testimony could be furthered?
Jere — Winter soldier was treated as show, not really important in MSM. The fact is veterans who are courageous, are not given support they deserve from anti-war effort. We need more open testimony avenues for them. And it needs to be public.